Since late February it's been legal for properly permitted concealed weapons owners, and rifle and shotgun owners, as well, to bring their weapons into a national park if the surrounding state law allows such carry. Has that change in national park gun regulations changed your thoughts about visiting a national park?
There was quite an uproar over this rule change, on both sides of the issue, with more than a few folks saying they wouldn't want to be in a park where some folks might be armed. Has the issued turned into much ado about nothing? Or, if you opposed the rule change, are you changing your plans to visit a national park?
Comments
Paul "Barky" Dionne,
I have carried a firearm for 30 years. It is not a firearm that makes you safe. It is your mental preparation that keeps you safe. But if you need a firearm to protect the ones you love nothing else will work. A firearm is just a tool. A tool that I don't want to use but will if called upon.
I carry insurance on my home that I never plan on using but have it for that one instance I may need it. Do I drop my home owners insurance and take that chance? Would you? Are you afraid to go without insurance on your home? It is not fear that makes you buy insurance on your home. It is being prepared just in case something does happen so you will be able to get your life back together after the fact. You can't get a life back. If someone wishes to do my family harm I want the only tool that will work in that instance. That is why I won't go without it. Just like I won't go without insurance on my home. We never know what is going to happen. Funny thing the motto of the Boy Scouts is always be prepared. To many people don't want to take the responsibility of protecting their family in all instances. They want to depend on 911. Cell phones don't work at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. You are on your own.
Paul "Barky" Dionne,
I am not a big fan of open carry either. The first regulation the Interior Dept put forward would only allow concealed carry. That reg was ruled invalid by a Federal Judge because they didn't run an Environmental impact study on carrying firearms. Like that mattered. Then the Feds passed a law and the president signed it allowing any type of carry that was legal in the state the national park was in. Just like other things when politicians get involved they don't solve problems they just create more.
Just out of curiosity, Gary, while rafting where will your sidearm be, in a ditty bag? And does the outfitter allow clients to come armed?
One thing I've found is that businesses that work in the parks are reluctant to explain how they're dealing with this rule change. While in Saguaro NP last week I saw that at the Desert Museum, a complex surrounded by the park, they have a sign right at the entrance stating firearms are not allowed.
I'm sure many readers would be interested to know which stance the various park concessionaires take on this issue.
All I can say is that it will be interesting in California. The laws aren't all that clear on where a loaded firearm can be carried without a permit.
Recently people have been making a fuss about unloaded open carry, which is legal on the street almost anywhere in California. Loaded open carry is legal in unincorporated areas where it's not "illegal to discharge" a firearm. I sort of assume that means in an area where one could otherwise do target practice, hunt, or go plinking. It probably wouldn't be legal in my neighborhood (I live in an unincorporated community) since it's a residential neighborhood. It's still illegal to go target shooting on NPS land, so I suspect it would be illegal to open carry a loaded firearm in let's say Yosemite.
The NPS hasn't given much guidance, and suggest people research state/county laws on their own. I don't believe that the discharge of a firearm rule has changed, so I'm under the impression that someone wouldn't be able to keep a loaded gun ready, but probably would be within their rights to load a weapon if a threat was perceived.
http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm
I'm just waiting for someone who is freaked out trying to shoot a campground raiding bear with a Glock. I really hope nobody in a crowded campground gets hurt if that happens.
That is my point. It is not just in the backcountry but everywhere allowed by state law. Backcountry, hiking trails, ranger nature talks, parking lots, etc... Now I hope we don't see a "in your face" attitude from those that feel they have to bring Smith and Wesson, Browning, Klock or Remington along just because they can, but there will be an uncomfortableness in situations were firearms and weapons are present. The public is not used to seeing firearms and weapons in NP's! I never have felt threatened or felt the need to conceal carry or open carry a handgun nor the need to carry a rifle or shotgun unless I was out hunting. I do know someone that was in a bi-racial marriage at the time and had a concealed carry permit.
I suppose one of the problems is that law enforcement had to respond to these "someone with a gun" calls. Especially in California, I've seen warnings by local law enforcement that these situations could get hairy since they may be forced to act quickly to a perceived threat if someone doesn't comply with requests to show that they're not loaded. One local police chief warned that someone open carrying an unloaded weapon could be robbed by someone with a real loaded weapon. It gets really, really strange when there are non-uniformed people carrying firearms in plain sight in populated areas.
I personally witnessed an incident where someone was changing the oil in his car in a public parking lot. I think changing oil there (and maybe having a firearm) might have been against the policy of the store/mall, but this guy also was clearly showing a revolver in a side holster. The local police weren't taking any chances, undid the fasteners on their holsters, turned off their manual safeties, and had their hands right on their sidearms prepared to draw their weapons if needed. Besides that, I couldn't figure out why anyone would want to crawl down on the ground with a gun. I'd think it would probably cause some cosmetic damage to a valuable object.
Has a handgun ever saved anyone at the bottom of the Grand Canyon?
As for the parks in general, I've heard that shooting a grizzly with anything other than a high-powered rife will only make it mad. Any thoughts on that?
The Outfitter I am going with has not one word on their website about firearms. IF they didn't allow them they would have it there. I am legal In Arizona and 39 other states to carry a concealed firearm. That makes it legal for me to carry in the Grand Canyon. There are no Grizzley bears in the grand canyon. There are Mountain Lions but the biggest predator in the Grand Canyon is Man. There are bad people everywhere. Just because I am at the bottom of the canyon doesn't mean I will not run into one. I hope I don't.
My Firearm will be on my person at all times. A little water will never hurt a Glock. Even If I end up in the water it will dry off. It has been wet before. Water doesn't hurt a gun anymore than it hurts your car if you take care of it. As for the Ammo if you buy the right stuff water will not hurt it either. It is sealed to keep water out.
As for concessions etc in the National Parks. If the building is not posted then I can carry in it. Federal Law states that if the building is off limits it must be posted. If I were in a building and they did discover my firearm and the building is not posted all they can ask me to do is leave. If I don't leave then I am breaking a law. Here is the Federal Law on posting buildings. Want to find out more about State and Federal Gun Laws. Go to my website at www.handgunlaw.us
I18 USC Sec. 930 01/03/2007
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS
Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.
(3) The term "Federal court facility" means the courtroom, judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.