| National Parks Traveler

I just love a good cynic! Careful there Bob, some people are going to misinterpret your closing line as though you actually DO support corporate charges within the system. I've tried "leaving it between the lines" before, and rarely does anyone read the intent, only the words. Whatever happened to interpretative thought anyway?

Dec 16th - 05:30am | Bob Janiskee

Selfishness. Greed. Consider that these might be exactly the words to use here. They are human dispositions, and for some they are the most powerful driving force in life. Me! Me! Me! Me! More! More! More! More! You have thousands of miles of miles of groomed snowmobile trails that you can use on private property and in the national forests and the state parks.

Dec 16th - 05:27am | Billy

Gerald, your statements are for the most part on the mark. One exception; National parks are basicly set asides for "preservation" while other public lands are to be managed for the good of all and for economic purposes that benefit the nation, not just a few. Radical greenies , rather than good public policy, have dominated public lands issues for decades.

Dec 15th - 21:29pm | jsmacdonald

I'm glad here that we are talking about the history of the parks - and Yellowstone, in particular - in terms of the harsh reality behind their birth and their present.

Dec 15th - 18:47pm | Lone Hiker

It appears to this observer that the real sticking point lies within the phrase "varied use of the parks", which like the terms "federal" and "national" can be defined to reflect the intentions and peronsal interests of the beholder.

Dec 15th - 18:26pm | Anonymous

Aldo Leopold was a hippie socialist. What "Bush slant" did he use?

Dec 15th - 15:59pm | Anonymous

Gerald, give me a example of "good science" and give me a example of "junk science" in regards to you comments (without the Bush slant). It appears to me you have no concept in what your talking about, instead you go on this anti-environmental tirade of nonsense.

Dec 15th - 15:42pm | Merryland

Wyoming is a damn big state -- there's plenty of snow to snowmobile elsewhere without abusing the National Parks. Lots of National Forests and lots of BLM land in Wyoming and surrounding states, and Wyoming is the least populous state per square mile, so there's room to rumble just about anywhere they are. The National Park belongs to the entire country, not just Wyomingites.

Dec 15th - 15:12pm | Bob Janiskee

What Gerald seems to be proposing is that the national parks should function like the national forests, national grasslands, and BLM lands when it comes to accommodating recreational use. I submit that Congress knew exactly what it was doing when it ordered the National Park Service to adhere to a higher standard of resource protection than that which prevails in these other public lands.

Dec 15th - 14:18pm | Gerald

The abundant extractive resources that exist in these parks are already off-limits to the American people (yes, the corporations are the American people via the fact that most of us own mutual funds in mining, oil, & timber companies). But that's O.K....we want to see them pristine...to a common-sense point.

Senators Pushing To Allow Concealed Weapons in National Parks

Dec 20th - 15:50pm | repanshek

Just a quick note from the editors: While the give and take of comments is interesting, let's try not to stray into personal attacks, which will be edited out. Please try to stick to constructive input. Thanks.

Dec 20th - 15:40pm | Fred Miller, Mi...

This is an old, volatile issue. I go hiking to SEE the creatures of the woods, not to SHOOT the creatures of the woods. However, to wander off in the wilderness without some form of self-defense is dangerously irresponsible. You would never think of hiking without a first-aid kit or matches, would you? The same goes for other "one chance in a million" emergencies.

Dec 20th - 15:33pm | Mindee

Joel is the only one who's not making personal attacks. What he said is reality. I have 4 kids and I'm a single mom. I love to watch cops and pepper spray doesn't stop drugged out freaks. I don't care about what you want. I want my kids protected and that is why I carry my berretta .380. I can't believe you can watch a few incidents a year and think that gun violence is the norm.

Dec 20th - 15:27pm | Anonymous

I can't believe with the rate the world is falling apart with all the shootings that we have to ask permission from anyone to protect ourselves. Isn't carrying a gun that simple? I haven't owned a gun in years only becuase I can't afford it. If anything should happen they should make it easier to get one.

Dec 20th - 12:03pm | Joel

Your comment is perfect...Our original military was brought about by farmers and other common men to form a militia to overthrow its current government which had become corrupted. Our argument will continue to go in circles because you simply feel that "the people"(2nd amendment) is talking about a collection of men as 1 body (which is government, and that would be gov.

Dec 20th - 09:02am | Anonymous

Lone Hike, I totally agree with your comments which are well structured with excellent points.

Dec 20th - 06:59am | Jim

I travel to the States from the UK each year to visit your wonderful National Parks. I think I've seen about 80 or so Parks and Monuments over the course of maybe a year's travel in total. Not once have I ever felt threatened, intimidated, suspicious or otherwise alarmed by my fellow park-goers.

Dec 20th - 05:39am | MRC

Well, there is a very simple rule. You may carry a weapon in those federal areas where you are allowed to hunt. And you are not allowed to carry it, where hunting is not permitted. If you have to think twice, in which category the National Parks fall, well - congratulations - you just qualified for a seat in the Senate.

Dec 20th - 00:55am | Gerald

This is a law that is way past due being changed. Many NPS campgrounds house derelicts who overstay their allowed period and pose a reasonable risk to families. I, as well as many folk I am sure carry anyway to protect our families. Most rangers wouldn't mind good law-abiding citizens packing anyway, for to possess a concealed-carry permit one has to pass a background check.

Dec 19th - 22:13pm | Lone Hiker

Your 2nd Amendment right was originally intended to field a militia to support, as in function as, not supplant the military. When the Bill was written, the newly founded States had no national military, unlike those with whom we were warring such as France and England. We possessed no naval capability either.

Dec 19th - 19:16pm | Steve Sergeant

Perhaps this will cause a boom in the bullet-proof tent industry.

Dec 19th - 19:04pm | jr_ranger

Can someone produce some hard statistics or a study that can back up Anon's statements? It would be nice to be able to point to something specific instead of making claims without giving the source (no offense).

Dec 19th - 17:19pm | Anonymous

Well, for those of you promoting guns in national parks for safety, here's a tidbit of information for you. Success in using bear spray as a deterrant to attacks from wildlife -- 94%; success in using guns as a deterrant from wildlife attacks: 60%. Any questions?

Dec 19th - 15:19pm | Joel

It would be nice to live in a Utopian society where all the bad people stay at home and we can count on individuals to live up to the social morals we hold dear to us. That would be beautiful. It would be nice if we could count on everyone to drink responsibly and not get behind a wheel of a car.

Dec 19th - 14:20pm | Lone Hiker

What part of "NO" don't you understand, Senator? This policy is only confusing to the lower intellects on the evolutionary scale. Your freedom and your "rights" ends the minute my freedom to my family's safety is threatened, whether that threat is real, or just "an accident waiting to happen".

Dec 19th - 13:38pm | Bruce

I am a licensed Florida gun owner. There is no facility for checking my weapon when entering a local National Park. My choice is leaving the weapon at home (not an option) or locking it in my car. Another poor choice.

Senators' Letter to Open National Parks to Concealed Weapons

Dec 20th - 13:04pm | Joel

I agree...ban alcohol. I think we should ban alcohol. I can't think of any reason why someone should consume alcohol while in a NP. I have been camping and hiking and hunting for over 30 years of my life and I can think of no occasion that I needed an alcoholic beverage. I have however had to scare off animals with a firearm only twice. Once while camping and once while hunting.

Dec 20th - 10:43am | Lone Hiker

I don't believe the issue at hand is driving through the parks with your weapon "neutralized", locked in a case in the trunk of your car Robert. The danger arises when people carry loaded weapons out on hikes, rafting trips, horseback rides and the like. I understand that the parks have a standing policy of "no firearms allowed".

Dec 20th - 00:48am | Gerald

You are correct, Robert. This is a law that must be changed. When folks are on vacation, especially they like to carry to protect their families, in car campgrounds in particular. Folks are quite vulnerable in their tents from all kinds of derelicts.

Dec 19th - 19:24pm | robert w mccrory

transportation across large parks is a real problem for gun owners who don't wish to break the law, and driving around parks is impossible in a lot of cases

Robin Winks on the Evolution and Meaning of the Organic Act

Dec 19th - 21:34pm | J Longstreet

Professor Janiskee is right; this is important stuff. We hear lots of opinions on what the Park Service should do but this is widely recognized as one of the best and most authoritative analyses of THE LAW. Robin Winks was one of a kind, and an incredible asset to the NPS from academia (Yale). This is one of the most important articles in my library.

Dec 19th - 16:28pm | Bob Janiskee

Because this is a very long and detailed discussion of the contradiction issue, I suspect that many NPT followers will give it only a quick scan or not read it at all. That's a shame, since it is a very illuminating discourse. If you are one of those who hasn't the time or inclination to read the whole treatment, including Gavin's "further thoughts" here is the gist of it.

Park History: Capitol Reef National Park

Dec 19th - 11:24am | Anonymous

Chance, mark my words....you're going places with your pen. I love your spirit for the outdoors. Kurt, get this young man job!

Dec 19th - 10:00am | Bob Janiskee

I like to think that medical doctors will take to heart the dictum “First, do no harm,” even though it is not part of the Hippocratic Oath (which new doctors don’t take, anyway). Similarly, I like to think that park rangers will abide by the dictum” First, love the parks,” even though they take no such formal vow when they don that flat brimmed hat.

Dec 18th - 23:31pm | T. Kelley

Chance what an honor! I am so very proud of you and I'm sure your mom is smiling from ear to ear. It is going to be fun to watch you grow and become the Ranger that you want to be. Your Dreams Will Come Through! Thumbs Up!

Mountain Bikes In the Parks

Dec 19th - 09:35am | repanshek

IMBA's proposals, to the best of my knowledge, are for "shared use" trails, not trails solely for cyclists. A perfect example is the trail proposed as a centennial project at Big Bend.

Dec 19th - 04:25am | Anonymous

Mr. Repanshek,

Olympic NP Tribe Wants Land Swap For Trail Access

Dec 19th - 00:12am | Random Walker

Here is some history for those so inclined. Is Your Tribal Land Secure? By Larry Ralston (this is a word document)

Dec 18th - 16:08pm | Terri Hansen

The Quileute ceded millions of acres for what is today the Olympic National Park. Why aren't we ceding back the few acres the tribe needs so it's people can survive a tsunami, or now the inevitable and inescapable rising sea levels? Let's finally do it right this time.

National Parks Contribute Holiday Ornaments to White House Christmas Tree

Dec 18th - 10:14am | Jo

As a National Park lover and visitor, I wish they would put these ornaments for sale - this could be a great fundraiser for our National Parks. Then this would really make a difference for our parks.

Are The National Parks Not Part of Our Federal Lands?

Dec 17th - 23:57pm | Rick Deutsch

For those wanting to follow this proposal...it is trackable as Senate bill S. 2438. Rick D.

Dec 15th - 22:24pm | Anonymous

I don't remember the mission statement saying "Make available for a fee". Your homework for this week includes: 1. How many parks have suffered from budget cuts? (look up the numbers) 2. How much money does each park recieve from fee demo? 3.

Dec 15th - 11:48am | Gerald

You are right on, Lone Hiker. An individual park yearly pass is a pittance to pay for what the visitor gets...at a cost of one meal for two in your average restaurant. Two meals for the America the Beautiful Pass. Keep the fees. User pays. Low income folks spend lots of money on beer and cigarettes, so no lame excuses there either.

Congressional Research Service--Recreation on Federal Lands

Dec 17th - 21:21pm | Lone Hiker

Whether you admit to it or not, you two (the editors) are already a resource to a vast audience. There are many people nationally who have a varied degree of interest in the topics presented in this forum, but lack the resources, intellect, or motivation to sift through the mountains of reports, articles, interviews, etc. of their own vocation.

Dying in the Parks: Park Service Concerned About Suicides

Dec 17th - 11:24am | kath

"Over the Edge" the book about death in the Grand Canyon states that in the year after "Thelma and Louise" came out on video, several people committed suicide or attempted suicide by driving over the edge. It's very sad when people feel their lives have no meaning and that non-existence is preferable to existence. But what is the NPS supposed to do about it?

Rocky Mountain National Park Officials Select "Lethal Reduction" To Help Reduce Elk Herd--Updated

Dec 16th - 13:40pm | Bob Janiskee

Holly, are you arguing for immunocontraception using the PZP vaccine? (PZP stands for "porcine zona pellucida", which is made from pig ovaries.) If so, Can you tell us about results of recent studies? I know that scientists were experimenting with PZP-based immunocontraception back in 2004, but I've not kept up with their research.

Dec 16th - 12:07pm | Holly

I think the Park Rangers need to try the birth control first, befire killing the Elk. The Elk is what brings people to Estes is to see the Elk, in the park and around in town. you start shooting them, and you wont hardly see as many in the Park or in town . They will be gun shy.

Cape Lookout National Seashore Visitors Seem to Prefer Things Rustic

Dec 15th - 23:50pm | Merryland

That's exactly what I love about Okracoke Island -- not a lot of people, cold showers at best, and not much else but sand, beach grass, and the incessantly pounding surf. how can you "improve" on something like that? Commercial Services -- BAH HUMBUG!

INN Member

The easiest way to explore RV-friendly National Park campgrounds.

The Essential RVing Guide to the National Parks

Here’s the definitive guide to National Park System campgrounds where RVers can park their rigs.

Our app is packed with RVing- specific details on more than 250 campgrounds in more than 70 national parks.

You’ll also find stories about RVing in the parks, tips helpful if you’ve just recently become an RVer, and useful planning suggestions.

The Essential RVing Guide to the National Parks